A Simplified Approach - 10/7/17

October 5, 2017
We have registered and have been doing our best to follow what is being proposed on the "Service for Zion" site. We have found it very cumbersome, time consuming, and overwhelming as we have attempted to move along through the principles that have been proposed.
In addition, only a few in our fellowship of over 45 have found the time to register, and read all of the proposed principles and comments on the site. In speaking with several members of our community, we found that they were feeling the same way as us. There has also been a hesitation to put forth a principle because being the moderator felt intimidating.
We are concerned that this approach actually creates more exclusion than inclusion because of the mechanics of it. There also seems to be important guidance that is not being addressed by the current principles proposed.
We have been wondering about the document produced by the committee called "Guide and Standard-Aug5th"
We are proposing that we consider starting with the Aug 5th document.
1. That document garnered over 90% adoption by a vote before the covenant.
2. If there was a re-vote by only those who have entered into the covenant, it may be possible that it would be mutually agreed upon. We could have the vote not be just yes or no, but "mutually agreed" or "not mutually agreed"
3. For those who do not mutually agree, could we create a forum wherein those who do not agree can state what specific principle or statement they would modify, using the same criteria put forth on the "Service to Zion" site? Then, all involved could focus with patience, long suffering, pure knowledge, and love unfeigned to work towards mutual agreement. We would be reworking the August 5th document and not attempting to start from scratch.
4. Before a re-vote, it seems important to add to the August 5th document the method outlined by Denver Snuffer in Boise about how to administer the covenant.
We appreciate all of the effort that was put forth by the committee to create the Aug 5th document. We also acknowledge the current effort to create something we can mutually agree upon. We hope the proposal we have outlined can be given consideration.
Yours in Christ,
Blain and Christina Saunders
Southwest Utah Doctrine of Christ Fellowship

P.S. We are hoping this can get to Adrian & Jeff as well.


  1. Two parts:
    Part 1:

    I know already that it is not mutually agreeable to my family. I am not willing to continue editing. We have gone through that effort three different times, and none of the outcomes represent something I can mutually agree upon.

    Can we come to mutual agreement ever? YES. How will it happen? If I had a answer for that, you could give it as much credibility as my description of what Zion looks like, ...ZERO CREDIBILITY! I've never been in Zion to describe what it looks like, and neither have I ever seen a mutually acceptable standard and guide. The only one who knows what it looks like is the guy walking us through it, Christ! What will be produced in the end, I assure you, will not be what any of us expected at first. It will be a pleasant surprise. Denver was surprised, thinking to not go forward with the covenant because of our behavior, and the Lord continued forward to offer us the covenant. We need to follow that example and do as Christ instructs each of us personally, allowing the Lord to do the miracle of making us, as a people, a mutually agreeable people.

    Too many are trying to force a result, generate a product, kick out a widget, to take to market, to pitch to the Lord, as if we can fool the Lord into thinking that our shoving it down another's throat is justifiably mutual agreement. We turn back to Babylon methods of corporate meetings, councils and committees, votes, majority rules, and compulsion through guilt. Not because we are dark, but because that is all we know.

  2. Part 2 (and I think the best part):
    The first comforter gives us pure knowledge. The second comforter helps us apply the pure knowledge to the circumstances we face now. I believe that everyone in this movement has been comforted by the pure knowledge offered in the words of Denver. However, we have had difficulty applying that pure knowledge to our current circumstances. The only addition that Denver added to the request for a covenant was that the Lord make himself known to us. Denver requested the help of the second comforter. I believe that Christ is willing to help us all as we learn to apply what we have acquired from the first comforter, in our current circumstance with developing a mutually agreeable document.

    My personal experience, my testimony, of how the Lord has worked in my life fits the description of the man who waited upon the Lord. Thus, I will not sign a bill of divorcement for Jeff Savage. I will not sign one for Michelle or Ken Jensen, or Karen and Kirk Strong. I will not separate from the Agape family. Just because we disagree on things, I have taken a covenant, and will trust that they are animated by the same spirit I am. And then I will wait upon the Lord to open the way, to help me build a boat, to part the Red Sea, so that I can build a bridge and get over it. I will not rush the pass.

    Speaking to your suggestion Blain and Christina Saunders, I will not go down that path again, trying to edit so that Jeff's revelation fits me. We should value everyone's revelation. However, Nephi's revelation to build a boat is not my revelation. We could edit his revelation to fit me, and some would choose Nephi's revelation to cut off another's head as the base document. That kind of thinking is too easily abused, and doesn't work.

    If we are to move forward, we gotta respect one another's revelation, and trust that the Lord, the second comforter, will assist us up the mountain, past the beast, to the glory of the fathers. He will teach us, individually, to apply the pure knowledge we have received to complete this project. But we must not rush the pass, and wait upon the Lord instead.

    When the spirit of the Lord instructs the individual, let the individual act. In equality, their revelation gives them no right to tell you what to do, or what not to do. All they have the ability to do is speak the truth and serve, so that perhaps people can discern the truth they are speaking by the Holy Ghost already in them, and allow Christ to walk them through it (the second comforter).

    I've heard that some want Christ to produce the words of mutual agreement. He doesn't need us to recite to Him His own words. That's a fairy-dust idea. He requires us to do the work, and He promises that He will walk with us, teaching us how to be mutually agreeable.

    To depend on a document, voting, results, etc. is to turn away the participation of the second comforter, in exchange for accepting the results of the arm of flesh. For me, that's a no go!

    Rob and Q Adolpho

  3. I hereby publicly express my dissent from this proposal.

  4. I add my name in appreciation for all the effort put forth by all to write a Guide and Standard. I ask the Lord forgive my murming and judgements I have passed upon others who are working to do as the Lord asked. This really should be about a Things of Light, as the Lord said.
    I express my gratitude to everyone and desire to be united with you in Christs Doctrine which enables me to live the Sermon...it is the only Doctrine and commandment of the Father received through His Son.

    Eva Gore