Thursday, November 23, 2017

G and S Support - Jeff Savage

A Request for my Brothers and Sisters

Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. (1 Corinthians 9:19-22, NIV)

I write primarily to those who are not in support of this Guide and Standard compiled by the 7 chosen by lots because you do not want to see the original governing principles document left behind. I get it. I have been there. I love you so much and am so grateful for your friendship, love and support these many months. I wish I had better words to express how much it meant to have you tell me that you had heard the Lord in the words of the original. However, I believe that the principle that Paul teaches above is more salient at this moment than holding fast to the echo of truth in the original. If you could be okay with the words I wrote, could you not also be okay with the inspired words compiled by 7 of your fellow brothers and sister? Paul was willing to act like a Jew when with the Jews. Christ condescended to be with us. If you believe that it is not necessary to only use the words of scripture, Joseph, and Denver to write the Guide and Standard, then can you at least appreciate that there are others--your siblings--who need that to come to an agreement? What if this small act--to mutually agree with this proposal--is all that is needed to unite us as one? 

Our ability to agree is what most matters. Truly. That may not be true for all situations and in all groups of people, but I believe it is true at this time. The Lord (in the Answer) tells us that we can "reason together and apply what [He has] given [us] and it will be enough." This is precisely what has been done. In His instructions to us, I see a loving Lord willing to work with a disjointed, proud people, despite their broken scriptures and weak offering. I believe the Lord manifested His approval of this effort in spades, with signs such as the Larsen's being picked sequentially, a father-son team being chosen (as was the case with the 12 in the Old and New world, as well as in the scripture committee), and even myself, the first to labor in this patch of vineyard, being the last to be chosen. There are many more signs there if you will ask. The Lord may not have asked us to use lots to decide what to do, but I hope we can all agree it was much better than having Denver solve the issue for us, and the fruits of their effort show that His hand was with the lot method.

Many are worried that we will offend the Lord with this offering. If that were the case (because we left the original GP behind), then I believe He would have told us so. Remember that in the Answer, He told us that when men intend no offense, none is taken. Were this our only opportunity to define what we believe, then maybe we would be rejecting Him in this. But that was not our task. Our task was: "Remember there are others who know nothing, as yet, of my work now underway, and therefore the guide and standard is to bless, benefit and inform them—so I command you to be wise in word and kind in deed as you write what I require of you."

Many have worried that we are losing the words of the Lord. In part, they read: "the humility and meekness required for those who would be my servants is hardly found on the earth. Repent, therefore, and adopt the ways of your Lord." Has the truth of those words not been made manifest in the intervening 9 months?  If you hear the Lord in those words, prove that your heart is humble and your spirit is contrite. Prove by your actions that these words have sunk into your heart. Please lay down the sword of defense in favor of a greater principle. The Lord will provide.

Let us not neglect the weightier matters of the law: that is, to agree with your brother while you are in the way with him, and, before presenting a gift on the altar to the Lord, first go and reconcile with your brother. It is not as if we are voting to include the commandments of men mingled with scripture; rather, these are true teachings compiled to bless and help newcomers. At the end of the day, this is a 9-page document that sits at the tail end of thousands of pages. A small thing. 

A more personal note. I only have my experiences to guide me, but I feel to share what has happened recently.  I have gained more through the sacrifice of this earthly thing than I have from any other thing. The promises given in Moroni 10 have been fulfilled in my personal life. The law has been planted in my heart and begins to spring up, changing me in a way I never before have known. Knowing all that I know, I would do it all again...though admittedly this time I would do it without fear. I wouldn't worry that someone else's argument against my position would undermine things. Rather, I would have the confidence in God to do my part, speak when moved upon by the (right) Spirit to do so, trust others are also being moved by the same spirit, and otherwise remain slow to speak. 

I promise you, those of you who have been loyal to and defended the original, that if you will sacrifice this good thing for the sake and for the love of your brothers and sisters, that your heart will be softened. That the soil of your heart will be broken such that the Seed (the law of Christ as given in the Sermon at Bountiful) will have place, the roots thereof will find purchase, and you will feel those swelling motions within your breast. You will feel the love of God, which casts out all fear, step in and that love will serve like a strong tree in a storm. It will anchor your heart, reaching up to your mind, guiding your thoughts in such a way that you will look back on your past self and will cringe at your "cretin-ness". 

I promise you all this, and do it by virtue of the love that is in my heart. I can testify and witness of the goodness of this sacrifice, and of the Lord's acceptance of the efforts of a weak group of people, just as He was willing to accept my own weak efforts, or of others who put forth documents. If you can exhibit no more than a small desire to believe this is possible, please give it a try. Plant the seed and see if it changes you.

Your brother,
Jeff Savage 


  1. Thanks "Jeffy,"

    I made a comment in support of this "Lots" version written by the 7-8 a couple days ago before the revised version was released yesterday.

    It was a comment on a different thread which may have been buried and missed, so I'll put it here again:

    I likewise would publish my support for the resultant G&S put together by the Lots 7.

    I, along with support of several others, had submitted the entry "Adopted by Mutual Agreement" (adopting the original GP as the G&S).

    I heartily welcome the opportunity to coalesce around this LOTS document. After whatever modifications/changes are implemented [have now been made] I expect to be able to sincerely adopt it by mutual agreement with whomever else would do likewise... not that there may be more things or less things that could be included... but because everything that is included is true (IMO).

    Now, after having seen and read the revised version I can say that I am happy to mutually agree to adopt this statement-- with his many of youas will also do it-- to be added to the scriptures.

    "It is enough."

  2. All I can say is "amen" we need to learn how to reason together and let go of our hurt feelings and forgive we can't be the Lord's people if we don't learn how to come together even with our differences- maybe this was just a test for that same purpose - Margaret Brough

  3. "I promise you, those of you who have been loyal to and defended the original, that if you will sacrifice this good thing for the sake and for the love of your brothers and sisters, that your heart will be softened."

    Amen. This has been me.

  4. Can't mutual agreement mean we agree to disagree? I know that sounds odd but we can mutually agree to disagree. It doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong it is just that we love and respect each other to know there will be times we don't see things the same and that is okay. We can still move on. We can put aside whatever we "think" we know and be willing to learn something new. We know the Lord's ways are not our ways.

  5. Part 1 by Q

    When my husband started reading Denver's stuff I didn’t give it much attention. Then he started writing a blog to me, and his family. As I read it, I heard truth and it rang true to me. For the first time in my life, I wanted to REALLY read the Book of Mormon, and when I did, understanding poured in. I loved it. I wanted to understand it more. So…, I read Denver's stuff, and I felt freedom. I thought to myself, "you mean 'I' could have direct revelation from God, I don’t need another man to direct me or tell me what this means. You mean, these white people don’t have to be above me telling me what God wants for me. You mean God loves me too, and its not just these white people." That was the best fruit I ever tasted. I was so excited!
    What woke me up was freedom, and it was freedom knowing that I could have a personal relationship with Christ, and I could come into His presence. It was no longer just the white people who could come into His presence and receive revelation (growing up all I ever saw were white general authorities). It was drilled into my head: White is right. White is beautiful and clean. White in the BOM meant they were more righteous. I grew up during the time of The Indian Placement Program, where before and after pictures were taken of Indians in the placement program, and at the time, they claimed the Indians' skin started to turn white because they were becoming more righteous.
    For the longest time I believed this, and a part of me still does, to some degree. That part of me causes me to hesitate to write this because, white is right. But I as we have been commanded, we need to do as we say.
    What I say is what I believe. Some have asked me, why don’t you just join the majority, why don’t you just agree to have peace, love and unity. If I defined these terms the way you do then I would join you. But I don’t. Peace to me is when Christ is leading, where all men/women everywhere can come unto Him and have a personal relationship with Him. Peace comes from man believing that all men/women can speak to the Lord through the veil. Peace comes when iniquity (grossly unfair behavior) is no longer with us. My people lived in darkness because of iniquity. Peace isn't going to come by keeping my mouth shut, in front of everyone, and then behind backs speak what I really feel.
    I tasted the fruit of freedom/equality and it is something I'm not going to give up because a "majority" believe in the lots proposal and they believe that the Lord called seven people by way of lots and believe that this document represents the majority's faith. The fruit I am speaking about is everyone has an equal opportunity to come unto Christ, each person has the ability to hear the voice of the Lord. Each person can be commanded by the Lord. That’s what I understand from reading the BOM.
    I believe Faith is knowing that the path you are on is acceptable to Him. So, when you say this is your "best guess" or "this feels right" or tell me a feel good story, I have a hard time accepting that this is being done in faith. In fact, when this was presented, it sounded like it came about, out of fear. When I spoke about allowing the voice of the Lord guide and not lots, some indicated they were: worried of "crazies" saying they heard the voice directing them; others reported there were some of you who thought it wasn’t right that the "elite" were ruling; others feared evil people being in charge; and on it goes. To me, the lots idea was not generated by faith, it came about because we fear each other. How can you come up with an idea based out of fear and then claim it to be faith? This doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    I believe you mention in your document that, "God alone will establish Zion." When you say that this is your best guess and you feel good about it," this doesn’t sound like God is in charge. It sounds like your logic is in charge.

  6. Part 2
    Is this the pattern you believe is in the BOM?
    I don’t doubt God is still with you. Did God abandon the early saints and the Mormons all these years? Did He abandon my people? So, I believe you when you say He spoke to you. But does that mean you are right and I am wrong? Does that mean I am the opposition or the 1/3? Am I back to being that loathsome and dark person I was led to believe I was, because of iniquity?

    I believe Lehi had a dream and in that dream he talks about people who made it to the tree, because they heard the voice of the Lord, others caught hold of the Rod, and those who clung to the iron Rod fell away. Clinging reminds me of someone who fears something so they hold on to dear life. Because of fear the lots came about, because of fear we can only quote scriptures. You can say, it is because you love God, but from where I am standing it looks like you are acting out of fear. Did Denver just quote scriptures? And if he did, would your eyes be open to see and your ears able to hear?
    Before Christ appeared in 3rd Nephi he taught the people by way of His voice. We have been taught the past seven years by way of His voice. What have we learned? What is God offering us? What did He offer the children of Israel. What did Adam have? What woke you up to all of this? What will wake my people up? What is the fullness of the gospel? And has that been declared to us? 2 Nephi 29: 5 And the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be declared among them; wherefore, they shall be restored unto the knowledge of their fathers, and also to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which was had among their fathers. What does this mean: the knowledge of their fathers? What did Abraham mean when he sought out for great and greater knowledge?
    Denver taught about the fathers and it rang true to me because it aligned with the symbols that were preserved in my culture. I didn’t understand these symbols until this knowledge was shared with me. This understanding helped me understand that our people aren't dark and loathsome and evil. My culture wasn't evil. My people actually knew about the great and greater knowledge Abraham spoke about. What will open the eyes and ears of my people to see and hear? This document? If this was presented to you many years ago, when you were still a True Blue Mormon, would it have opened your eyes and ears to see and to hear? What's so different about you than all the other religions that approached us?
    For me, because of my belief, I will pray to find out how I can help Him do His work. For me, I will follow the direction of His voice. I respect what you choose to do, if you believe the Lord's voice is directing you to do what you are doing, I can respect that but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with it or do it. Nor does it mean I need to shut my mouth and not say what I believe. To me, respecting your belief means NOT to cut you off, by way of parameters I set up because we believe differently.
    Christ is the King of Zion. It is He that will lead us. It is by way of His voice that great and greater knowledge will be obtained. Christ is the one who does the gathering.
    Hahina iamai ana kapuana

    When the Hawaiins get together, to reason things out, at the end of things they say: Hahina iamai ana kapuana meaning: Now my story is told. When the Blackfoot are done reasoning something out they say Kyun meaning: now my story is told and I'm done.

  7. That was absolutely beautiful, Q. (I think your name is Quintina, right? But since you signed with Q I'll just use that.) Thank you for sharing your heart and story. Please always speak.

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  9. I would like to say how I feel about the lots proposal. The Lord does many things, inspires many people in ways that are difficult to explain to others. Denver, himself, even taught about lots and how God uses them to make His will known; “Such a system was uncontrolled by man, done by lot, completely random, but produced the right person. Left to God, it obtained God’s answer. Did with the sons of Lehi, and with the vacancy in the Twelve in the Book of Acts, too. There is no reason why such a system wouldn’t generate the Lord’s choice today. “

    I do not see any fear in the lots proposal. I see a group of people with a genuine desire to accomplish the task the Lord has given to them and exercising great faith that the Lord would be with them. I read the 7’s Guide and Standard and it is beautiful and it is the words of the Lord. It is meant to be given to those who are new converts to the Lord and the work that He is doing in our day, to help them understand and know how to do those things that are the minimum requirements for coming unto the Lord; those ordinances which are crucial for them to be numbered as His Sheep. The document written by the 7 does exactly as it is required to do. I think most of us are to the point where we genuinely want to work together to accomplish this task, and, I believe that the lots proposal, although, not the only way to accomplish this task, was a wonderful way for many of us to work together.

    As there are many ways this task can be accomplished, I would greatly appreciate it if those of you who disagree with the lots proposal would share with us your proposal; what is your solution to our current dilemma? What is your proposal to accomplish this "light" task the Lord requires of His People? I know some have written their own document, but this is a “group project”, not an individual one. For me, I supported and still support the lots proposal because it involved everyone in the entire body of believers if they chose to participate. It took great faith and much fasting and prayer has gone into this effort. I am still fasting and praying for the 7 as well as for the body of believers that we may all come to know and understand the will of the Lord and increase in love for one another.

    Jeff, thank you for this beautiful post and your sincere humility in sacrificing your assignment and your original (and subsequent revisions) in order to try to make peace and move forward in adopting a document that will be accepted by the people and by the Lord. God bless you!

  10. Here we are again. Why are we so in a rush to stop working to develop mutual agreement, rather than to coerce, manipulate, or cajole it? Jeff and many others state in support of this effort, saying "What if this small act--to mutually agree with this proposal--is all that is needed to unite us as one?" But, I can reverse it and ask, what if it isn't what you think it is at all? So many here are so quick to speak for God, as if labeling it God's words makes it His. The Mormon temple ceremony is labeled God's words by them, does labeling it such make it so, when they have wrested them? How can you be so confident that this was God's intent? And if you are so confident that this is it, shouldn't the words themselves be sufficient to convince me? What's the point with all the fluffy words, it doesn't make the message somehow more true, and it doesn't impress those of us who have our minds pointed to where Joseph Smith left off, rather than where Joseph and the restoration began.

    You have stated that it is our ability to agree that matters most here. Says who? By what power do you speak, translating what is most important here, or what is most important there? If you prefer people who'll simply lay down and follow the leader here,, do you know where we all came from? We have been cast out from the LDS, for what? For following the leader there? No! For asking significant questions is what caused them to feel threatened and cast us out. Maybe you haven't been cast out yet, and still fly under the LDS radar as others seem to do, but I have chosen to act only when instructed by the Lord, and that is what I'll do, despite your instruction that it is only agreement that God wants. That is precisely what has put me in this path.

    In my opinion, you should speak only for yourself, rather than speaking for someone else. I will speak for myself, and state that this recent effort does not resonate with me, and I cannot support it yet. However, I will not stop working towards mutual agreement. I will continue to work with those intending to continue.

    Those who support this have spoken to all as if they speak for God. If God tells you to go in this direction, state it, and why. But when you try getting others to see as you do, you are out of bounds. Stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine.

    Rob Adolpho

  11. There are many types of fear. I think that this effort of lots was a way to remove accountability, to write and face the music for inspiration and revelation. The lots gave the assignment, so no one could complain about it's source. The people used someone else's words so they didn't need to get the revelation themselves, but could ride the coat tails of one who did. So, You might only define fear as running away from something scary in the dark, but we are in the dark, and none who have claimed the assignment have been able to speak with confidence, it has wavered from the beginning. They have side stepped the necessity to be a witness. In the absence of confidence, fear and doubt has increased.

    Denver doesn't speak with fear because he knows who gave him the words he speaks. Unless those writers know, not merely believe, they will continue in doubt, and therefore can certainly be associated with fear. Yes, Bishop's Wife, I too smell fear.

    Rob Adolpho

    1. Thanks, Rob. There is light and truth in what you and your wife are saying. I am sorry for the fear I have contributed, but I am learning much about myself through all of this--how and why I think what I do at times, and how to re-center my heart in Christ and His Love. I am grateful for your instructive wisdom and knowledge. I have so much to learn and wonder what the heck I am here for at times. God bless!

    2. Just to clarify, I do not smell any fear in the lots proposal. I see faith, hope and love.

    3. [Part 1 of 3]
      Rob and Q, I believe you are correct, that we did act out of fear. I include myself in this because I know I have been concerned about how long we have dragged out this process without reaching any resolution.
      I have tried to see this from both sides, but I believe only God is completely unbiased, so forgive my personal perspective as I attempt to point out what I see are lessons learned from this challenge that we were tasked with of coming up with a G&S. To all that read this, please take it in the spirit I give it. I intend no offense.
      What do we expect when this is presented to God for His approval? Are we looking for vindication of our position? (If God accepts it, then we have proof that the minority who has dissented from the process are in error and need to repent, or if it is rejected then we have evidence that the majority were somehow out of bounds in how they proceeded?) How can we know that God's approval isn't His way of saying, "have it your way" (see 1 Sam 8, D&C 3, etc).
      The next time we are called to accomplish something together what is the precedent that we have set for ourselves if we follow this same process? Let's take a look at it. It was not difficult to determine the pulse of the group (no opinion poll was necessary). The majority were anxious to be done with this whole thing, willing to accept any number of proposals (as one person put it, "I want you to know I have agreed with every presentation of a statement of principles that has been presented so far"). Then we get a group of like minded folks together to collaborate on how to proceed. If we encounter resistance among us, we proceed without "the opposition" (because we know there will always be opposition), and carefully craft a plan using a backwards planning process [] which is a proven method for achieving a goal. Now all we have to do is launch a campaign and get buy in from the majority who we know is already weary (as are we) and ready to get things done as efficiently as possible, so we can move on. It makes it even more convincing to use a method of lots to select a committee to follow step by step the plan that was crafted all the way down to the line items to include in the statement. This gives the illusion that it is the committee that was drawn by lots who were responsible for the outcome, when it could be that they just followed the plan outlined by the first committee who drafted the plan in the first place.
      I don't say this to suggest that the committee who drafted the plan have evil intentions or to accuse them of manipulation etc. or anything else. Quite to the contrary. I believe their intentions were sincere, motivations pure, and even inspired. I only want to point out issues that I hope we can learn from in the future. The failures of Kirtland, Missouri and Nauvoo were results of such similar attempts to push agendas through that invited "jarrings, and contentions, and envyings, and strifes." (D&C 101:6)

    4. [Part 2 of 3]
      I want to make clear that I do not fault those who have come together and proposed a way to move forward with the. Despite that I have my own issues with the process and how I feel it has been marched forward, I am grateful for their efforts and see it has served good in moving us into action. God bless all those who played a role. You are as the players on the field, playing the game. You may be making blunders while there are those of us on the sidelines judging and complaining about it, but at least you are taking action. We should all appreciate that effort, even if we disagree with some of your plays.
      For those with eyes to see, it's evident that God has revealed himself in the drawing of the lots to select those who have been chosen. There was something miraculous that happened there, as Keith has pointed out [].

      Acting in haste does not necessarily mean that we shouldn't take the bull by the horns and get something done when it needs to be done. To me, haste, (as referenced in D&C 63:24, 101:68) means acting hastily, or rushing the pass out of impatience or fear. It is important to get things done and within the time God asks (see D&C 124:31). But it's also important that it be done right. "How you proceed must be as noble as the cause you seek." Haste means to get sloppy, to rush through before we pause to take the necessary time to proceed correctly. To use a Steve Coveyism, If we pause to sharpen the saw we will cut more wood than if we continue rushing through with our dull saw because we can't take time to stop long enough to sharpen the saw.
      It is true that we will always have opposition. But I don't believe that means you treat them like "that eccentric aunt that you just dread having come around. You can't for the life of you, understand why she thinks cloves should be poked into a turkey on Thanksgiving. You wonder if maybe there should be a procedure that more easily confines her to someplace where they administer psychotropic drugs. " (DS, 40 Years talks, Talk #3)
      I feel we are rushing through a process that is not allowing us to learn to love and listen to and give audience to those with strong opinions among us. We are neglecting putting into practice the very principles we are trying to agree on. We are more focused on trying to hurry through to achieve an outcome without learning the more important lesson on how to love what we perceive to be the un-lovable among us. By rushing things through we are depriving ourselves of a blessed opportunity to experience the miracle of what it looks like to come together as one. Do we lack the faith, that by allowing ourselves to open up to "the opposition" we risk making ourselves vulnerable to the possibility of further delay and possible ire from God, at the expense of what we might learn if we considered others' opinions and ideas? What if what we lose by pushing forward in haste is the healing we might experience by finding the unity we seek? Are we willing to believe God can actually keep His promise that if we "Pray together in humility and together meekly present your dispute to me, and if you are contrite before me I will tell you my part."?
      For those of us expressing concerns, as valid as our complaints may be, the problem is that without offering some solution to the problem our criticisms are just grumbling. We are as observers on the sidelines of the game making judgments about what we see happening on the field.

    5. [Part 3 of 3]
      To be honest, I love the document that has come about from this effort. I give it my full vote of confidence and acceptance. My perception is that the minority who voted against the current are less concerned about the document that has come from this effort, and more concerned with how it has been pushed forward.
      So rather than comment on the sidelines, I would like to join in the game. Can I step into the huddle and recommend a possible "next play"? Moving forward let us take the time to consider what it would look like to give everyone a voice without allowing a majority vote to divide us. There are options that have not been considered or presented (that should include Christ giving His part).
      In the Answer and Covenant the Lord tells us to "Study to learn how to respect your brothers and sisters and to come together by precept, reason and persuasion" The admonition to "Study to learn" reminded me of a book Denver mentioned in The Second Comforter:
      "Charity is one subject that has been given a great deal of treatment by the Saints. Numerous books exist. One of the best is Bonds that Make us Free: Healing Our Relationships, Coming to Ourselves (Warner, C. Terry The Arbinger Institute, Inc. Salt Lake City: Shadow Mountain Press, 2001.) In it Professor Warner not only discusses charity, but does so in a remarkably readable way. It is a book worth studying." (The Second Comforter, pg 281)
      The book focus is on ourselves. We don't change others, we only change ourselves.

      Another book that came to my mind was The Three Laws of Performance by Steve Zaffron and Dave Logan. I give a summary of the Three Laws (that I have called "principles") in some thoughts that I have recorded here - [].
      My point is, as we move forward from here, let us learn from this experience and not repeat the same mistakes. Let us seek to become one people who "must equally walk truly in [Christ's] path" (A&C pg 3) and "come together by precept, reason and persuasion".

  12. Jay, I appreciate your thoughts as well as seeing a couple of people actually asking what the few think. I have been given similar ideas to yours--books like Bonds That Make Us Free would be worthwhile reads for all fellowships and families. I am to the point, however, where I just don't know if it matters what I think or feel anymore to anyone here. I honestly do not believe my ideas would be received with any interest since all that people want is my acquiescence to the lot G&S. Never mind what my heart is saying. Just force it and the light will come, supposedly. Each day the darkness grows deeper...

    There is an energy of cruelty that has crept in...A person can not firmly disagree or express concern over what is seen without being vigorously labeled opposition akin to the third host of heaven who rebelled against the Head God and Council of Gods, and now too as a wolf attempting to harm the flock. Dear God. Where is the Christ-like love?

  13. Lori and Jay,

    I agree that the method of approach makes having a different opinion difficult. We probably share many things in common, but also have differences, as I can see in your explanation. Jay would agree with the lots Doc, but I wouldn’t. Lori reserves her thoughts from those who only want her sustaining vote, where I would express my efforts in the direction of King Follet. However, where we seem to agree is recognizing the division growing because a group has a larger footprint, therefore a louder voice. None of us are responsible for our participation here. We came to this all by ourselves, because of the voice of the Lord. If, now that we are here, we are now required to listen to a man, or a group, or to simply agree, like the louder voices tend to believe we are to do, ...then they are requiring that I abandon my relationship with God in me, for the relationship of God in them. And that is not faith to me.

    Both Jay and Lori recognize the necessity for all to continue following the voice of the Lord regarding this, as we have been regarding sacrament with wine, rebaptism, and fellowships. If the doc is acceptable to the Lord, then all that should be required is for us to read it as individuals, and like Denver’s words, it will declare itself to us.

    Nobody need put the next person down. God can speak for Himself. I pray that all will hear His voice, and know Him!

    Hang in there Jay and Lori. We can wait upon the Lord, and in the meantime allow all to be free to chose how they’ll respond and react. We are all being tested here.

    Rob Adolpho

    1. Rob, God bless you, brother. I am grateful for the things I have learned from you through this process. I look forward to hearing / reading the thoughts that come from your efforts in the direction of King Follet. Please keep us informed.

    2. Thank you, Rob. You are a voice of soothing calmness for me. Christ has told me no on His acceptance of this latest effort. How can I deny His voice to me?

      I care about everyone, especially those standing inside the circle yet outside the building. I cannot help but see them and want to work with Christ in bringing them into the fold. I just did not realize I would find myself as one of them.

      I sense He is allowing all to choose and will let the effects flow. I do not feel panicked or distressed. I am here because I care, and I will continue to share my heart as long as I am welcomed to.

      I feel sadness at times, mingled with His hope. I see so much goodness in those I have "met" here, so much strength and faith. I sense there is much I can learn from each person. The fact that we each got to this place! Miracles of miracles for me and my husband. We tend to be slow in our learning. ;)

      Like Jay said, please keep us in the loop. I have been reading the King Follett sermon of late. Oh!

      I would love to hear more from you and your wife. I want to learn more about your lives and your work among First Nation people. I am so ignorant about their history, needs, and giftings. Sorry I sound like a weirdo groupie!