Tuesday, November 28, 2017

A Different Idea from One of the Lot Group

A new proposal has been added to the sidebar titled "A Different Idea from One of the Lot Group". 

13 comments:

  1. I wouldn't necessarily call this an official "proposal," even though there are ideas presented which might be interesting to experiment with.

    ---Doug Larson

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  2. I'm a little bit surprised that the first comment doesn't say "I hereby dissent from this proposal." :)

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    1. Which is why I didn't want it officially called a proposal. Just some ideas.

      ---Doug

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  3. I’ll put this here, too - the idea does not conform to the requirements of the clear language of the A&C.

    So, as you may have guessed, I dissent, yadda yadda.

    Jared Livesey

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    1. Said over there as well:
      Seeing as how it is not up for vote (at least I am not submitting it that way) and is in no way "official," there is probably no need to dissent, but it is certainly your right to quickly disagree.

      ---Doug

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    2. I understand. I’m simply covering all the bases.

      Jared

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  4. I left a comment on this idea's page, in case people are interested or not clicking the link.

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  5. (Part 1)
    Doug,

    I believe that your idea of considering the efforts that have been made is along the lines of respecting the communication with God, given to one another. When people simply respect revelation in others, not trying to change them to fit their own revelations and justify their own ideas, that is an environment of equality. Now, that doesn't mean that someone else's revelation must now be your revelation, unless it also rings true to you. If it rings, then it is your revelation. If not you can respect others' revelation by not trying to make them look like you. It only means that you respect that they are instructed their way, and you are instructed your way. It seems your idea respects others revelations as equal in value to your own, and that has a great ring to me.

    The other efforts haven't done that. They have accumulated a majority voice, dismissing the voice of the Spirit to those who have a different opinion than their own, to get'er done! Slick arguments have been proposed for why this one is "the one" and that all others must be done away with. An argument for claiming an assignment from the Davidic servant was used to manage perceptions. An argument for lots have been pitched, directing people's perceptions. An argument for majority governing the voice of the people has been marketed, directing people's perceptions. I recently heard of Adrian Larsen's current post, stating that rejecting the current document is rejecting the Lord's words, and people's perceptions are being managed their too. In my opinion, what it seems to boil down to is what does the Lord say to you?

    When large crowds of like minded individuals begin to rally in one direction, those who have different opinions doubt their communications with God, believing them to be the late bloomer in the bunch, that just hasn't gotten the memo from heaven yet. Rather than waiting for God to speak to them, they trust in the arm of flesh, jump on board without their own witness, and justify their choices, mimicking the same justifications as the clambering crowd. But unless God has spoken to you directly, it will continue to be a matter of doubt. In the past, many of those clambering support of the current proposal being voted on, have also supported previous ones, like the original, the June 10th, the July 2nd, and the Aug 5th proposals. They have claimed that the Lord would've accepted any one of them as a way to justify their changing their minds. But, if the Lord supported any one of them by His voice to you, why would you ever change your mind and do something else? I wouldn't.

    In the beginning, when people had a problem with Jeff Savage's name being in scripture, I had no opinion, so I voted to leave his words unchanged. However, when the invitation was given to the fellowships, and my friend (knowing nothing of Denver) got baptized (beginning a new fellowship), the voice of God was given to me. Because of that voice, I have not, nor will not stop working towards a mutually agreeable G&S. Although the crowd is developing momentum and inertia in their direction, unless the Lord speaks to me, I will continue to do the work He instructed me to do, and will not be star-struck by the arguments referred to above. It is the Lord's voice that makes your confidence wax strong, not your friendship with men holding status, or your alignment with those having pull. Right now the Lord's voice doesn't support their efforts to me, and I will continue to work with those who are also waiting upon Him. I will also respect those who have heard His voice directing them to accept the current vote. The orchestrator of Zion is not Denver, Jeff Savage, or the Lots committee of Seven. It is Christ. So if Christ dictates to you, do that! I will too.

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  6. (Part 2)

    I believe that previous efforts have tried to get the Lord to own the words, thus justifying themselves by quoting His words. Quoting the Lord's words to the Lord was not the assignment required of us. If I understand correctly, the assignment seems to be for us to write a statement reflecting us, not a statement reflecting the Lord. Quoting isn't a statement of us unless it is our words. It holds accountability for who we are and who we claim to be. Our claim to God is like Nephi saying, "you know I believe all the words my father speaks." It is a show of our equality. Using the Lord's words to make us look like we believe is not the same as using our words showing we believe. Until we come to mutual agreement, we cannot move forward simply by managing perceptions. We actually have to be mutually agreeable. Your current efforts seem to be pointed in that direction because you respect the revelation others have had. I do not believe it is an end, but I do believe it points in a good direction.

    If this gets broad acceptance and printed in the scriptures, and the Lord hasn't confirmed it to me, I will send you all off with figurative flower lei's, wishing y'all the best. As for me and my house, I will wait upon the Lord. And if I am unable to hear His voice because my heart is too hard, I will face the destruction for my lack of preparation in softening my heart. But I will not fake it until I make. Rather, I will learn it until I earn it. I hold myself accountable to follow Christ alone or be held personally accountable for my own sins.

    Rob Adolpho

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Hey Rob. I left a comment elsewhere a little bit ago where I talked about creating a statement that is representative of Him to the world, meaning how we reflect His light and love. But I like how you have spoken. I had not considered how it could be an example of our own hearts. I just want to share how I have come to know Him and how everyone else can go on that journey too. He's amazing. I want the world to begin to have hope in Him again.

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  7. Rob,
    Beautiful words, and it feels like we are on the same page. But this chapter is not yet over.

    I rather like what you said, "the assignment seems to be for us to write a statement reflecting us, not a statement reflecting the Lord." If that is the case, we are indeed writing the statement at this very moment. Not by the seven, not by a committee, by Jared or myself. The statement presented is how we associate with each other. Is it through mutual agreement or do we draw near unto the Lord with our mouths, and with our lips honor Him, but have removed our hearts far from the Him?

    People might someday look back and say, "Boy, they really made a statement!" It remains to be seen if it will be that we learned nothing from our history, or that we figured out a way to mutually respect one another in our sundry approaches.

    Doug Larson

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  8. A thought came to mind as I read the responses here. The Holy Order is her on Earth through the patriarchal fathers. They are the trunk of the tree from which branches come from, and that tree is the family of God. Those who are of the family of God, which the covenant is offering, ought to be a "statement" like Doug said.

    Writing from there would be a light thing, but our hearts lack, and that is the work upon us now: conditioning our hearts. Some have claimed that throughout this whole process their hearts were right, and that would mean it's someone else's fault, because someone else's hearts aren't right. That is neither meek nor humble. If we don't have a statement mutually agreeable, your only option is to blame yourself. If we take the accountability on ourselves, we are doing as Christ did for the sins of the world, and that will surely make our hearts right, especially if we follow His example of healing with love.

    I will not give a bill of divorcement, that will be unacceptable to me. I will continue waiting upon the Lord, working toward something mutually agreeable, and making a real "statement," ...as a whole, as a people, as a community, as Zion. I truly believe this to be possible. But, belief requires the work of faith to make it so.

    My comments here aren't to upset the efforts of others, they are to communicate my point of view and insights I have had, to be shared with those who have accepted the task to write. I am not one to simply dissent. And I am not contentious, even though I have been accused of that. Since my opinions don't align with the popular opinions, rather than continuing the work, I have been blamed for stopping the work, for hindering the work, for standing in the way of the work. Only when our ideas are shared openly can the work be done to merge the efforts. If I need to repent, I will do it, I just need to know what I need to repent of.

    Best of luck with your efforts,

    Rob Adolpho

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