Friday, October 27, 2017

HOPE - Update

It has been a few weeks since we posted our joint paper concerning our meeting on October 7. We realize it has been perhaps too quiet since then. We would like to let you know where things stand and how things have moved (and are moving) forward. As well, we want to try to help every person among us understand our objectives and How we hope to move forward what the Lord has asked, with our hands, (all of us), in our Lord’s hand together to accomplish this simple thing He has asked of us.

The servant of the Lord spoke in Dallas on Oct. 19, we feel the Lord provided some instruction and valuable guidance for anyone seriously interested in the GS “Statement,” through the things spoken to the Christian community in that talk.

In a nutshell I summarized my own thoughts about what I personally felt from the talk in my own recounting as follows:

From my own reflections:

Yesterday in Dallas the servant of the Lord delivered the second of two talks intended for Christian audiences. The talk discussed the earliest Christian worshippers and their mode of worship toward the end of the apostolic ministries and shortly after the deaths of the apostles who had personally been taught by Christ.

The earliest Christians were extremely diverse in their various approaches to the ways in which they understood, applied, and conducted, “Christian” worship. Some factions followed, and were inspired and informed by Peter. Some adhered more to Paul’s way and interpretation of the Lord’s gospel. John influenced other groups in His own particular interpretation and application of the Lord’s gospel. Thomas began and influenced congregations in India and Central Asia. The same is true of each of the apostles and the fellowships they influenced in their individual ministries in the many geographies they went to bringing their individual perceptions and beliefs about the Lord’s gospel to many varied people, cultures, and religious affiliations. They all were extremely different and diverse. There was no central authority or common belief system among, or between them. Each congregation or fellowship worshipped according to the gospel of Christ as understood, interpreted, and taught by the apostolic minister who came to them. These diverse communities, or fellowships, had only two elements that were common among most of them.

The only common elements among most of these extremely diverse congregations and fellowships according to the servant, were two things. First, they all believed and practiced the pure and simple Doctrine of Christ. Second, they believed and practiced the law of Christ. Those two elements of common Christian belief and practice among individual fellowships and congregations across a vast geography was the only cohesion they all had among them. And that was good.

There was no central authority or governing rules or law other than The Doctrine of Christ and the Law of Christ. And, according to the servant of the Lord that was “enough.” Do those words carry a certain wring to them? “That was enough.” The Lord in the Answer and Covenant said, “Apply what I have given you and it will be enough.” (Answer and Covenant Page 6 paragraph 3) If one carefully considers the words read to us that covenant day in Boise, one comes to realize, the words and suggestions of the Lord to us in the covenant, all relate directly or indirectly to the Doctrine of Christ and to the Law of Christ. If our requested statement to the Lord of “principles to Guide us” included only aspects of the covenant language pertaining to The Doctrine of Christ and the Law of Christ as contained in the sermon on the mount and the sermon at the Temple, and ordinances He has instituted in this new dispensation, “it would be enough.” According to the Lord our God, “I have given you...principles to guide you...apply what I have given you and it will be enough.”

The servant suggested during His talk in Dallas, those two common elements, the Doctrine of Christ, and the law of Christ, (as taught in the sermon on the mount, and the sermon at the Temple in Bountiful) between diverse and far spread congregations and fellowships “was, (is?) enough.” End quote of my writing

The servant previously said:

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. (Isa. 2:2-3.)

This can happen in our day. Or not. One day, some few will be guided by the Lord to accomplish it. But the choice of allowing it to happen is left to us. The journey begins by living the way Christ taught in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon at Bountiful. (All or nothing-7 conclusion Denver Snuffer)

This seems to be further clarification from the Lord of the principles He has given us, “to guide you”, and that we have already all mutually agreed to in the covenant language as pointed out in our joint statement from the October 7th meeting where the Spirit of the Lord instructed us all.

With all the additional light which has come forth in just the past two weeks, I am happy to report that one group of people who have been inspired and informed by what was taught on October 7th as well as Denver’s talk in Dallas on October 19th, has finalized their Proposal on How to Move Forward using a system of casting lots to form a body of 7 individuals from among the people to draft the Guide and Standard/Statement of Principles. It has been posted on this website for your review and vote of approval to forge ahead. They have reached out to many people from many different fellowships on all sides of this issue spending hours and hours of time in conversation to understand and address their concerns….suing for peace. I urge you to consider carefully what they are proposing and step forward with your help and support if you feel so inclined.

At the same time, there continue to be other people who have been likewise inspired by these teachings and we both support and encourage all of them in their efforts as they feel called to the work of completing this assignment from the Lord.    

We do not have predetermined ideas, or preferences as to whom the Lord will choose to write. We are determined to fully support, and assist, with faith, prayers, and confidence, whomever the Lord may choose. Our prayer is that those chosen will be the meek, the mild, the peaceful, and the humble among us.

We invite all to unite in our Lord and Redeemer to return to Him this simple “statement” of the guidelines He has already given us and that we have already mutually agreed to in the words He has given us. 



  1. I'm trying to stay informed of what is taking place on this forum and the recent changes have taken me more than a minute to piece the historical chain together. In case trying to follow the moving target has been confusing to anyone else (as it has been for me), here is a description of what appears to have taken place.

    "A Proposal on How to Move Forward" was submitted on 3 Oct 2017 which proposed implementing "A Committee for Obtaining the Voice of the People". The discussion thread for this proposal included comments that raised concerns over the implementation of a committee.

    On Oct 7th a "United Proposal" was authored by Steve Vanleer that included language that united many of the most outspoken voices that have raised issues about our statement of principals.

    On Oct 27th Steve Vanleer gave voice in support of a revision to the earlier "Proposal on How to Move Forward" that refers to a "body of 7" (in place of a committee) selected through a process of casting lots. This new version is titled "A Proposed Process For Developing A Statement of Principals" and took over the discussion thread of what was the "United Proposal". The earlier version, "Proposal on How to Move Forward" looks like it has been removed, along with it's discussion thread. Is that thread retrievable? It contains comments that may be helpful to understand concerns that were raised.

    This diagram show the changes:

    No offense is intended in making these observations.

    In the future I suggest that for the sake of those of us who are trying to keep up with the discussion here, keeping the history intact is useful.

    (Thank you for re-posting the "United Proposal")

    Jay Ball

  2. Thank you, Jay Ball, for attempting to organize the information. It is quite a tangled ball of word yarn to me. I appreciate you trying to make it somewhat less tangled and want you to know you are not alone in trying to stay informed. But it seems there is a lot of chatter elsewhere? I honestly have no idea what some people are talking about in the comments or how these meetings and such come about. Confused. I wonder how many others are out of the loop on things and what can be done to remedy that.

    1. Thank you, Lori. There may be chatter elsewhere, but I wouldn't know where. Here are some thoughts I recorded the other morning:
      (you may need to copy and paste this link to view it)

    2. Jay, I neglected to respond sooner. I am sorry for that. I enjoyed hearing your thoughts via video. I especially liked the story about praying with your daughter. Very powerful ideas conveyed. I have liked your comments left elsewhere, too, as they feel balanced and centered. Thank you for offering the thoughts of your heart.